tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post6156747362396642579..comments2023-11-02T04:52:24.035-07:00Comments on daviditron: The environment: Science not Politicsand then the_doctorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12648947724821535410noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-38979929350834524582008-05-29T17:54:00.000-07:002008-05-29T17:54:00.000-07:00Oh and I'd argue that it's only "meaningless in th...Oh and I'd argue that it's only "meaningless in the context of the long term forest cycle" if tree harvesting isn't a part of the long term forest cycle. <BR/><BR/>i.e. If every year you cut down X acres and it then takes Y number of years for those acres to recover then there is an ongoing measurable impact of x+F(x,1)..F(x,y). <BR/><BR/>Measuring this is important in terms of fulfilling climate change related legislation (Kyoto anyone) because it means a government can reduced forestry permits by a certain number of acres and thus achieve an effective CO2 emission reduction.enthemichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01154232910433478658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-69646389922472333182008-05-29T17:36:00.000-07:002008-05-29T17:36:00.000-07:00Oh thats cool, I didn't think the work you were do...Oh thats cool, I didn't think the work you were doing included greenhouse gas absorption rates of the new trees. What kind of tool do you use to measure that kind of stuff? They didn't say how it was done in the pdf, just cited some other research papers. <BR/><BR/>I think their paper came to the same conclusion as you re: wildfires, but of course there's little we can do about that while we can influence human caused deforestation.<BR/><BR/>I must admit I'm not surprised that there is a divergence between field research and academic papers, the reason I keep harping on about this is mostly because I think the paper should be updated if there is data which conflicts with it. Does the government publish your findings anywhere? If not it should.<BR/><BR/>I don't want to get into the whole anthropomorphically influenced climate change or not debate other than to say if there are factors having a larger impact on the climate than humans it doesn't discount human impact and essentially means that humans are making an already "bad" situation worse. (Where "bad" is from a admittedly anthropocentric perspective.) Either way, I'm sure you agree that having well researched, accurate, and politically unbiased research is important.enthemichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01154232910433478658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-30991148828686285012008-05-05T15:02:00.000-07:002008-05-05T15:02:00.000-07:00But my conclusions are not ideologically driven. ...But my conclusions are not ideologically driven. I do not drop results that don't fit my conclusions. I do not narrow data collection to ensure the results fit my designs. <BR/>People seem confident in throwing away research coming from the forest industry or oil industry and for good reason, yet they blindly accept greenpeace's research which should be equally suspect. I have the luxury being directly involved which is why my indignation is not political, but scientific.and then the_doctorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12648947724821535410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-27741502780747925522008-05-05T14:57:00.000-07:002008-05-05T14:57:00.000-07:00compared to fires, the temporary carbon loss in th...compared to fires, the temporary carbon loss in the first year of a clearcut is pretty insignificant.<BR/> As far as my personal politics goes, well full disclosure, Its been my job to enforce government environmental standards in the boreal forest. For several years I have audited clearcuts for the government to ensure that logging companies are obeying the law. It is this position which gives me an insight that most well meaning environmentalists lack: on the ground data and experience. After collecting my own data, at the stroke of my pen, a logging company may be forced to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to restock a clearcut that is not regeneratingand then the_doctorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12648947724821535410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-24198115132637641082008-05-05T14:45:00.000-07:002008-05-05T14:45:00.000-07:00In any case forest fires are the biggest carbon re...In any case forest fires are the biggest carbon release in the forest. Some years fires burn nearly 8 times as much as is logged. That carbon goes directly into the atmosphere as opposed to being locked up in wood products. If you've never walked through a burn I can assure you that the increased surface temperature rivals that of a clearcut for the first year. After 3 or 4 years they're pretty indistinguishable.and then the_doctorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12648947724821535410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-72728824772747540602008-05-05T14:32:00.000-07:002008-05-05T14:32:00.000-07:00I did read the paper and the amount of carbon los...I did read the paper and the amount of carbon loss is temporary. Its true that when you cut down some forest- there is no forest there! But you would have to drown it in pesticide for it not to grow back. If you want to take a point in time and say there's less carbon there- go ahead- its just meaningless in the context of the long term forest cycle. <BR/>The fact that Co2 levels are poorly related to warming makes this all moot anyway.and then the_doctorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12648947724821535410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-75661317628504642722008-05-03T13:24:00.000-07:002008-05-03T13:24:00.000-07:00Did you actually read the Greenpeace paper? pdf h...Did you actually read the Greenpeace paper? <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/canada/en/campaigns/boreal/resources/documents/combating-cc-boreal-forest-preservation.pdf" REL="nofollow">pdf here</A><BR/> <BR/>The objection you voiced (to me) is addressed fairly clearly on page 13 and appears well researched, citing 8 other papers.enthemichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01154232910433478658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-36026427740248113012008-05-03T12:19:00.000-07:002008-05-03T12:19:00.000-07:00*mental note* don't post on an empty stomach and n...*mental note* don't post on an empty stomach and not enough sleep...enthemichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01154232910433478658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-28645136213400987652008-05-03T00:20:00.000-07:002008-05-03T00:20:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.enthemichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01154232910433478658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-37602899735410444222008-05-02T22:37:00.000-07:002008-05-02T22:37:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.enthemichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01154232910433478658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-45277499912772481492008-05-02T22:26:00.000-07:002008-05-02T22:26:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.enthemichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01154232910433478658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-39583514587723995632008-05-02T22:15:00.000-07:002008-05-02T22:15:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.enthemichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01154232910433478658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656361.post-49364690986776773742008-05-01T07:00:00.000-07:002008-05-01T07:00:00.000-07:00Well spoken, and well done.Well spoken, and well done.rainswepthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06165059567790555748noreply@blogger.com